What To Do, What To Do...

"offroadkarter" (04RauderDTR)
03/10/2014 at 13:59 • Filed to: None

When I first started writing on Oppo, my very first post was about !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! Well somehow the train of common sense hit a derailment and I bought a 85 7 series BMW which proceeded to have !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! 3000 miles later.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

SO... its looking very good that I'll get a full time position at my current source of employment, and if that happens I'll be able to (with a little saving) afford something that wasn't dragged out of the woods after a 6 year slumber. I am budgeting around 15 grand but I might be able to stretch to 17 if I wait a short bit longer and find the right something. Problem is at 17 grand I'm in 03-04 cobra price territory and I'd naturally want to defect there, so I don't want to go that high if I can help it.

Here is what I'm looking at right now....

06-07 Volvo S60R 6spd Manual

The volvo is a 300hp/tq turbo inline 5 with a 6spd manual and Haldex AWD system. Its the newest car I'm looking at. The benefit of this car being AWD is I can drive it in the snow and don't have to rely on my truck.

I test drove an 04 with the manual back in 2012 and I found that it was a joy to drive. The seats are some of the best seats I've ever planted my ass into, it had good power and the car bolted off the line with that AWD. I did find that I had to really work the shifter to get it to shift and the clutch is like an 0n/off switch,but it was fine otherwise.

The problems with this car usually come down to the AWD system. The angle gear, which is responsible for the rear wheels having power, can have the input shaft strip and cause a very expensive replacement if it gets that far. As far as I've seen the engines are generally reliable if you don't try to crank up the boost to much. To much power (over 400 iirc) and the block can split.

00-03 BMW M5

It didn't dawn on me how cheap some of these cars got until a friend bought a 00 M5 last month. The M5 has a 5.0L V8 making 394hp and something like 368tq. Its regarded as being the last true drivers M5, as well as the last M5 you can easily work on yourself.

The problems with these cars, well its a BMW so its self explanatory. Cars of these era had anything from dying dash pixels to VANOS issues. I've even read a few stories of complete engine failure. Out of the 3, this would be the most finicky when it comes to reliability, but I still see a lot of people on m5board who DD these cars. I've seen plenty past 130k miles to.

05-06 Pontiac GTO

Yeah this kind of came out of left field last night. I'm not 100% sure if this would work but it seems to make sense so far.

The 05/06 GTO has a 6.0L LS2 making 400hp. Its a very big and roomy two door with a interior that puts any other GM product of the era to shame. I actually drove a 04 LS1 with the 4L80E auto and thought it was fantastic to drive. The sound system is great, it rode well, the seats are really comfortable and it moved out well.

Problems with these cars seem to be in the realm of alternator issues, ignition cylinder issues (hello cobalts, can you hear me?), HVAC issues and sometimes suspension bushing issues. The ignition cylinder is the biggest one to me but it seems that GM has a revised one that they came out with years ago. I'll have to read into that more.

So these are the three I'm looking at which are all in the same ballpark of prices. Should I look into the S60R and hope that with maintenance and finding the right car I won't blow the AWD out? Should I learn from the mistakes of my BMW and get back to "American" cars with the GTO? Or should I try to find a nice M5, throw reliability and common sense out the window and just deal with it?

You could always humor me and suggest something else in the comments. I have weird standards in cars so don't get offended if I say no!

DISCUSSION (40)

Brian Silvestro > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 14:02

Why not E28/E34 M5? I'd have the E39 over the other two. Or even an E36 M3.

505Turbeaux > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 14:03

so what exactly are you doing with the 745i? What did that have for a tranny? ZF 4hp22? If so you know you cannot rev that engine in neutral beyond 2K

Jayhawk Jake > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 14:09

What about a G8? I don't know how their prices are or if you can get one with a manual, but it's a great looking RWD sedan.

Meatcoma > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 14:21

This.

2001 Ram Air Firebird.

OPPOsaurus WRX > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 14:25

My first choice for you is the Volvo because I'm not on the hook for the maintenance repair bills. That's really the only reason I went with the WRX over a V70R. I love that generation of M5 but I would imagine it would have the same repair cost problems. In my opinion its the best looking M5. I'm also not a fan on the Australian car mainly I think because I knew a kid who had one and he sucked at life.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 14:26

Volvo. Even if it tends to be an unreliable little shit, at least it can deal with an accident once it happens.

Jay Lauer > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 14:44

Let's think about the market here.

S60/V70R's are fairly low in price, and only getting lower. It's a very niche car, and the maintenance on it is a killer. Also, Haldex AWD is not all that great. 90/10 split. You'll buy it, maybe have fun, be set with some repair bills, and then sell it, for much cheaper.

On the other hand, the E39 M5 is already being primed and groomed as a future classic; the last great M5. You'll deal with German car problems, and the fuel efficiency won't be the best, but its a RWD 400hp 6-speed saloon. You'll buy it, have great fun, repair stuff, and sell, for a profit.

Also, the GTO is more of a cult classic car right now. It's everything the M5 is, but 2-doored and 'Murican. It has gobs of torque, and is actually super comfortable. You'd have no problem owning that own either, and could probably sell it for the same price you buy it for.

The Volvo seems like a great deal, I've always considering getting one, but you have to think about your investment.

awe46m3zcp > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 14:47

I would normally say M5 but that grey S60R is the sex!

offroadkarter > Jay Lauer
03/10/2014 at 14:51

I'm pretty sure the haldex on the R sends more than 10% to the rear, I've seen a lot of people on the R forums who say those cars dominate in the snow.

Resale isn't exactly the biggest issue since I'm not going to like flip it in a year. Plus the ///M people tend to think that their post redesign M5's are worth fucking gold. 25,000 grand for a car with 110k miles on it just because it has some extra fake leather? Get out of here with that crap.

Cars are an awful investment, I bought my 04 marauder for 20 grand out the door, put 8 grand into a supercharger, 1200 into headers, and could get 14 for it if I sell it now.

offroadkarter > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura
03/10/2014 at 14:54

Hey, I have had zero accidents! My outlook on crash test ratings is don't crash. I've never looked into e39 safety ratings but I don't expect the GTO or M5 to be awful in that regard. I know Volvos are safe cars overall though.

Stupidru > Jayhawk Jake
03/10/2014 at 14:55

If you want a G8 with a manual and the V8, be prepared to pay. Those only came in GXP trim and hold their value extremely well- in some instances they're selling for more than MSRP was

offroadkarter > Meatcoma
03/10/2014 at 14:56

Thats in terminator pricing territory!

I'd buy a WS6 as a project, but never as a daily. The interiors are awful build quality. That car is way overpriced to.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 14:56

If I didn't have to worry/factor in stupid people/weather/animals (as I had to when someone crashed into my XT once) I would gladly go for the GTO or the E39.

offroadkarter > OPPOsaurus WRX
03/10/2014 at 14:57

I'm also not a fan on the Australian car mainly I think because I knew a kid who had one and he sucked at life.

I knew someone who had an 06 GTO and sold it because "it was falling apart" meaning it needed basic maintenance like new brakes and struts.

offroadkarter > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura
03/10/2014 at 14:58

I live in Jersey so the worst of animals we really have is deer, and I already punted one of those with the marauder. If we get bad snow I have the lifted bronco for that use, although for light snow it'd be nice to have the volvo.

offroadkarter > Jayhawk Jake
03/10/2014 at 15:01

I think only the V6's are in my price range. They're only starting to fall out of the stratosphere or yes I'd totally be looking at them. Love those cars.

offroadkarter > 505Turbeaux
03/10/2014 at 15:03

The teflon ring fixes that "can't rev in neutral/park" issue. The problem was the stock steel seal would carve marks onto the stator shaft.

I'm going to fix the 4hp22 and hopefully this spring or summer find a parts car with a getrag 265/6 and do a manual swap. I figure if I can get it to the point where it lasts a little while I can drive it on crappy days.

offroadkarter > Brian Silvestro
03/10/2014 at 15:05

E28 is to old, I have an E23 and yeah I don't need another 80's "project"

E34 M5's are to hard to find and people want to much for them usually

Not a fan of E36's in general, wouldn't want a 3 series anyways.

505Turbeaux > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 15:06

haha yeah I saw some jackass learn this the hard way on an XJ8 Vanden Plas. He was like listen to how sweet this v8 sounds at 5K revs!

offroadkarter > 505Turbeaux
03/10/2014 at 15:08

Its such a dumb design, this whole trans is questionable to me. Its like 2/3rds the size of the 4R70W in the merc. Its like 1/2 the size of the E40D in the bronco.

I hope I can find a suitable parts car soon enough. With the way this trans shop is dicking me around I could have finished the swap by now.

Brian Silvestro > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 15:09

The E34 is the best. If you find one for the right price, get it!

505Turbeaux > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 15:10

yeah you should see one in a Land Rover. It looks so stupid in there.

offroadkarter > Brian Silvestro
03/10/2014 at 15:11

But Chris Harris said....

Brian Silvestro > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 15:15

Well, the E28 is the best, but I haven't seen one for sale at a reasonable price in months. The E34 is the second best.

offroadkarter > 505Turbeaux
03/10/2014 at 15:17

I read that the ZF 4HP24 came to exist because land rover blew up every 4hp22 they were sent for testing, sent them back to ZF and said "do it again but build it stronger"

offroadkarter > Brian Silvestro
03/10/2014 at 15:18

They're just to old for me. I didn't think I'd get anything older than my 96 bronco, then the BMW entered my garage

It'd be nice to have something that feels slightly newer than my marauder which most of its interior is based out of 1995.

505Turbeaux > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 15:19

haha sounds about right!

Jay Lauer > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 15:19

I made $12k owning three different cars last year, so we'll agree to disagree about them being a good investment.

The R's system is 90/10 and then sends power to the back when their is slippage or the system senses that it needs power sent to the rear. It reacts to slippage after it happens, so it's rather understeery. It'll do fine in snow, if you give it a second, but as a performer, it drives more like a FWD with less understeer.

I still think the M5 is a good investment, but for ease of ownership, GTO might be the best answer. If you don't mind the two-doors, it's a great car. It's cheap to maintain, and will generally hold value. Obviously, if you do numerous mods, you won't get your money back on the mods.

offroadkarter > Jay Lauer
03/10/2014 at 15:32

I'd just be worried about the BMW eating my wallet while I wait for the resale to go up. Plus by the time I sell it, it'd probably have at a minimum 130k on it (if I buy around 100-110k at most) so I doubt I'd make any money on it when you factor in maintenance. I've read 2-3 grand a year minimum on keeping the car on the road.

On the other hand, its a M5

Brian Silvestro > offroadkarter
03/10/2014 at 15:57

Just lease a new Fiesta ST for like $150 a month.